Thursday, November 18, 2010

Hayek - Will - Paul

Jim:

I remember reading Hayek's, "The Road to Serfdom" in college. It is an attack on soviet style central planning, which no one I know is in favor of.

(Of course now if you Google "Hayek" all you get is pictures of Selma Hayek's breasts -- which is actually more interesting than the book, and probably better for the economy overall.)

By the way Jim, George Will's erudite arguments never follow: They never run A-B-C-D-E, always C-A-D#-E.

Example:

1) It turns out that recessions are good; they cull out weak competitors.
2) Recent speculative bubbles, caused by poor oversight, have resulted in a colossal recession and high unemployment.
3) Ultimately this recession may put the economy on the right track. There is no reason to be unduly concerned about temporary high rates of unemployment which will be sorted out by market forces.
4) We should take this opportunity to cut taxes on the rich, because there is not an insurmountable problem, and all taxes are a drag on the economy.

(If you listen closely and give it the right cadence, you can almost hear George Will's voice.)

You can't push a string. You can either stimulate the economy now or enjoy a 10-year economic depression. I guess some people would prefer a depression to a second term for Obama.

Ron Paul, was smart enough to understand the Libertarian argument and stay on track. His Tea Party offspring are spouting gibberish.


3 comments:

Jim G. said...

Thanks for taking the time to create the post, now let's discuss it...

Will's argument, says Eric.

Example:

1) It turns out that recessions are good; they cull out weak competitors.

Turns out.. implies that this conclusion is a recent discovery.
It is not. If you drop a hammer and it hits someones head, you can argue that it is not fair, but hammers will drop. laws will be followed, social planning cannot make them disappear.

2) Recent speculative bubbles, caused by poor oversight, have resulted in a colossal recession and high unemployment.

Speculative bubbles, like hammer falling's, happen. To describe the colossal recession (Great) as 1) only resulting from poor over site and 2) unrelated to a large government and entitlement culture is...well... disingenuous.

3) Ultimately this recession may put the economy on the right track.

Umm..OK..

There is no reason to be unduly concerned about temporary high rates of unemployment which will be sorted out by market forces.

Would you like some ice cream with that cherry picked pie? What part of SCREAMING about high employment are you missing. Market forces are the ONLY way to create jobs and reduce this vexing problem, or is your argument that the stimulus has done the trick and France and the USSR should be our mentors?

4) We should take this opportunity to cut taxes on the rich, because there is not an insurmountable problem, and all taxes are a drag on the economy.

You really intended to say...continue the current tax rate on everyone, right?


There is no multiplier, there are no growth "government" jobs.

The money is there and will be spread, either you think Bill Gates should spread it or you think the 543 committee should. I want the former.

You want a painless society? Find me one and I will join you.

Will's argument is that there is always mission creep in government and beware politicians who speak of "social justice", for their true intent is a reduction of freedom.

Jim G. said...

Thanks for taking the time to create the post, now let's discuss it...

Will's argument, says Eric.

Example:

1) It turns out that recessions are good; they cull out weak competitors.

Turns out.. implies that this conclusion is a recent discovery.
It is not. If you drop a hammer and it hits someones head, you can argue that it is not fair, but hammers will drop. laws will be followed, social planning cannot make them disappear.

2) Recent speculative bubbles, caused by poor oversight, have resulted in a colossal recession and high unemployment.

Speculative bubbles, like hammer falling's, happen. To describe the colossal recession (Great) as 1) only resulting from poor over site and 2) unrelated to a large government and entitlement culture is...well... disingenuous.

3) Ultimately this recession may put the economy on the right track.

Umm..OK..

There is no reason to be unduly concerned about temporary high rates of unemployment which will be sorted out by market forces.

Would you like some ice cream with that cherry picked pie? What part of SCREAMING about high employment are you missing. Market forces are the ONLY way to create jobs and reduce this vexing problem, or is your argument that the stimulus has done the trick and France and the USSR should be our mentors?

4) We should take this opportunity to cut taxes on the rich, because there is not an insurmountable problem, and all taxes are a drag on the economy.

You really intended to say...continue the current tax rate on everyone, right?


There is no multiplier, there are no growth "government" jobs.

The money is there and will be spread, either you think Bill Gates should spread it or you think the 543 committee should. I want the former.

You want a painless society? Find me one and I will join you.

Will's argument is that there is always mission creep in government and beware politicians who speak of "social justice", for their true intent is a reduction of freedom.

Baxter said...

Thanks for taking the time to create the post, now let's discuss it...

Will's argument, says Eric.

Example:

1) It turns out that recessions are good; they cull out weak competitors.

Turns out.. implies that this conclusion is a recent discovery.
It is not. If you drop a hammer and it hits someones head, you can argue that it is not fair, but hammers will drop. laws will be followed, social planning cannot make them disappear.

No, but good policy can severely reduce the frequently and damaged caused by recessions. GOOD POLICY - not an aversion to action.

2) Recent speculative bubbles, caused by poor oversight, have resulted in a colossal recession and high unemployment.

Speculative bubbles, like hammer falling's, happen. To describe the colossal recession (Great) as 1) only resulting from poor over site and 2) unrelated to a large government and entitlement culture is...well... disingenuous.

More excuses - "History is full of things that could have been avoided" - Adenauer. Poor oversight and the failed Republican economic model caused the Great Recession. Building massive debt during times of growth leaves little room for error. We were operating in a very unforgiving economic environment.


3) Ultimately this recession may put the economy on the right track.

Umm..OK..

There is no reason to be unduly concerned about temporary high rates of unemployment which will be sorted out by market forces.

Would you like some ice cream with that cherry picked pie? What part of SCREAMING about high employment are you missing. Market forces are the ONLY way to create jobs and reduce this vexing problem, or is your argument that the stimulus has done the trick and France and the USSR should be our mentors?

We should be stimulating our economy with another $1T of infrastructure construction and repair. The states still need some help to keep teachers, cops and firemen on the job. The consequences will be severe and long lasting if we fall into the deflationary abyss.

4) We should take this opportunity to cut taxes on the rich, because there is not an insurmountable problem, and all taxes are a drag on the economy.

You really intended to say...continue the current tax rate on everyone, right?


There is no multiplier, there are no growth "government" jobs.

With all due respect, the above comment is terribly ignorant. There is a very important multiplier effect to spending (and tax cuts). Hiring private contractors to build roads, tunnels, train tracks and power grids is not an expansion of government. It places money in the hands of the private sector who then go on to spend it in the private sector and so on.

The money is there and will be spread, either you think Bill Gates should spread it or you think the 543 committee should. I want the former.

You want a painless society? Find me one and I will join you.

Will's argument is that there is always mission creep in government and beware politicians who speak of "social justice", for their true intent is a reduction of freedom.

Again - we need to pay our bills. Our budget is structurally and massively out of balance. We need to be very careful with tax hikes now. However, if we intend to retain Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid, we will need to increase federal revenues to 25%/GDP +/-. Ultimately, there is no such thing as a free lunch.